Zengobi Forums

[Khechog]

Hi all, I've been waiting for someone on these forums to start begging for an iphone app for Curio. So far no one has (I don't think). This is probably because getting your idea spaces onto an iphone screen seems impossible (is it?) and much of the other functionality that you could put on there is already provided via other apps - so you can get your to-do's via iCal & the Evernote integration allows for clipping items into Curio via the iphone.

But I'd like to find out if the idea of a Curio app for the iphone really is a waste of time, or if there is any functionality in Curio you'd appreciate on the iphone and if so how would you see it implemented?

To start the ball rolling, for my part I can say I'd like to see the status shelf on there. Why? I don't use iCal because I find it hard to read the entries, plus I just find I tend not to use normal calendars. The status shelf format is something that's growing on me lately - so is something I'd appreciate on a hand held device.

Any other suggestions?

[Khechog]

Alright, I'm filing this one under 'dead-duck'. But this thread might yet have life given the possible appearance of the rumoured Apple tablet and its possible use of the iphone OS. That's a lot of 'possibles', but you never know.

[george]

Hi, Khechog. I was actually waiting for more responses here before I posted anything but perhaps this will help kickstart the discussion.

I've received lots of requests for an iPhone version of Curio but I generally respond to each request with a "what exactly do you mean?".

Curio itself is way too large for an iPhone app so what nuggets of Curio are people looking for?

The vast majority seem to want a mobile way of managing their tasks. Basically a Status shelf on the iPhone. Another possible solution is integrating Curio with other products such as Things, Toodledo, and/or OmniFocus. That way you can just use their app to manage all your Curio and non-Curio tasks. Lots of non-iPhone-users want that type of integration as well so this would be a win-win solution.

Some want a mind mapper. Of course there's a growing field of mind mappers on the phone but it's an intriguing idea.

Others want a snippet manager. But then I point them to the Evernote integration and that generally excites them.

Oh, and lastly, some want scribbling/sketching but, again, there are already lots of apps for that.

So, anyone else want to chime in here?

[kovacd]

I understand the issue of trying to replicate so many of Curio's features in an iphone app -- it would be cumbersome and unwieldy. But there are some things that I see as beneficial.

For me, some level of integration with OmniFocus would be fantastic. I use Curio for brainstorming, collecting data, reviewing options, and devising a plan. OmniFocus keeps tasks in order in other parts of my life -- outside of Curio -- so why not integrate it together when possible? I imagine folks who use Things, Hit List, etc. feel similarly.

I agree that the integration with Evernote has solved a lot of my clip-it collection and inspiration-on-the-fly issues. I'm learning to use it more as a conduit to Curio projects.

Besides OmniFocus integration or some sort of task management merge for taking them on-the-go on an iPhone/Touch, I discovered that what I could REALLY use was some sort of presentation viewer. I end-up lugging my laptop along to dinner meetings just to show clients and co-workers what ideas I'm playing with (if the opportunity comes up). Because it's a laptop it always feels more like a presentation than a discussion of ideas. If I had works-in-progress on an iPhone/Touch, I think the meetings could be very productive. I'm thinking that if I could go into presentation mode on the desktop Curio project(s) and export it/them to an iPhone compatible viewer that would be awesome. If I could jot some notes in there that would be "awesomer!"

[Khechog]

Hi George, thanks for getting the ball rolling.

Integration of tasks into another app could be the ticket, though doesn't that happen with iCal anyway? Not using iCal I don't know. Also I've found with task managing apps that they all have their own strengths, weaknesses & different ways of doing things. People have their different preferences, but unless you find a way of integrating with a wide variety of apps you could just end up pleasing a specific subsection of your users. Many people like myself avoid task managing apps altogether because they just can't find the 'perfect fit' (Curio being the only thing that's worked for me because it's so flexible). Plus it's another app to buy, get used to, manage etc etc (the former point being a major issue, though you could go for integration with a free task manager like RTM) and I would hate to have my hand forced to a choice I did not like. I could see that argument used in reverse though by people who are already using Things or whatever and don't want to migrate to a Curio 'Status' app. I suppose this might be pointing at having both options - a 'Status' app & RTM integration or such like - I don't know if this would be too cumbersome (doesn't RTM in turn integrate with other task managers? This could be the route to take...). For me 'Status' is designed as part of Curio, so it fits perfectly, has the familiarity factor, integrated functionality etc - I'd prefer to keep that.

Kovacd: I like that idea! Not just good for showing others but also for taking your ideas with you for yourself. We can browse 'non iphone optimised' web pages by zooming in & out - why not idea spaces? Or - you could have one view for idea spaces, say a full screen thumbnail preview & when you select one you go into a slideshow of the various figures within it. Or maybe integrate the figures with coverflow so you can flick along between them... Wow - I like that idea ... In fact - do the same for the idea space thumbnails & you've got something very functional. Would editing them in this way be too much to ask from a processing power point of view? One downfall with this 'slide show/coverflow' suggestion is that you wouldn't be able to see relationships between figures, whether they'd been connected by lines etc - but I wouldn't expect full functionality in such a set up - Curio would just have to know to discard connecting lines for the app & maybe auto generate scribbles as figures. You'd also have to make sure clipped figures were able to reveal text through scrolling or some such and embedded documents would have to be left as icons or previews - unless they integrated with other apps that could edit them...

What you were asking for is already there to some extent though, in that you can export to HTML & show people your spaces in Safari. Though personally I'd find that a bit of a faff - what if you can't get a signal for instance.

This is good - I knew there'd be possibilities with iphone integration, but like George has indicated, it requires us to be specific about what we want & use our imaginations as to how it's implemented.

Any other ideas & opinions?

[pavig]

Things integration would be amazing. There is a BIG gap in the iPhone OS that Apple left when they didn't include tasks in iPhone sync... an insane situation. Any suitably complex task management needs some triage anyway, which Things handles nicely. Unfortunately Curio and Things don't play ball so well currently.

For a mindmapper on the iPhone I highly recommend iThoughts. It has both opml export and import - most of the mindmappers export only. I've used it to export curio mindmaps and take them on the go for a bit of cafe brainstorming.

I've friends who swear by mindmeister for iPhone, but that is a web app on the mac side it may not suit everyone. Looks very good though.

[russdquinn]

My opinion is that return on development investment would be greater from working on integrating Curio with more apps that are already leading in their respective niches. I thought your Evernote integration was brilliant. It totally brought Curio more into the center of my workflow because I can use Evernote to capture ideas.

Omnifocus/Things/Toodledo integration would get my vote for first priority simply because access to tasks tends to be the thing that I need the most when I am away from Curio. It would be helpful to mix my creative projects that I use Curio to manage with my more mundane project which I use Omnifocus to manage. I would really like for Curio to become part of one integrated system.

[Khechog]

I can see your point Russ, and maybe for most iphone users the extra spend (assuming they don't already use the task manager in question) may not be a big deal, but how good can that integration be? If you sort your actionable items by custom tag set for instance - are we going to be able to do that? Then there's still the question of what if you don't want the hassle of integrating your work flow with yet another app, which you may not like. Those apps have already refined themselves it's true, so I can see the worth in taking advantage of that, but I think the Status shelf is pretty refined - in general & specifically in its integration with the rest of Curio (like sorting by custom tag sets for instance) and I'm already using it to manage my day to day items as well as the more creative projects I'm involved in.

The Evernote integration seems a bit different to me - it's two apps with their own merits supporting each other rather than trying to merge and act as a single app - the latter's always hard to do because the agenda & priorities of the developers are different. I've always found it's the little things that put me off task managers. Plus Evernote is free - imagine looking to buy Curio and thinking 'sounds great, but to carry my to-do's around I need to fork out another $$$. Which I suppose is the current situation less explicitly - but imagine if it wasn't - saving on not needing to buy an iphone integrated task manager is quite a selling point.

Again, I can see how the argument could be made in reverse 'I already have 'x' task manager & I don't want the hassle of changing to Curios own', but there are lots of task managers and so all but the lucky few would be feeling that. My vote would still be for a custom app.

P.S - if the Curio app was to happen it would be handy to have the ability to set timed alerts.

[george]

The amazing thing, IMHO, is that Apple isn't syncing tasks to the iPhone even though they handle calendar events very nicely.

I keep expecting them to add task support any day now but it seems constantly put off. Very frustrating.

[Khechog]

Yeh, can't see any logic in it at all. That simple addition (not even an addition, just a fix really) would placate many of us. I do recognise that what I'm asking would be a lot of work and would be a long way off - which could be a dubious investment on your part George if Apple suddenly integrates tasks with the phone. It would still be a great feature, but then lots of great features are being requested here that might generate more interest for Curio. Still though - task management without portability seems to be half a job and 3rd party app integration a bit convoluted - especially if Apple then decide to integrate tasks and you're left with two methods to get them on your phone. If you take this route maybe have the 3rd party option as something you can choose to display or not (or just plain happening under the hood), depending on your preference, to avoid such future overlaps or to help people who just are not interested in that app. Speaking of which it wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to choose which options are available in the shelf - some people might want to reduce clutter & distraction by removing the Evernote or scrapbook options which could duplicate functionality for some. As you introduce more features it could get crowded up there. But I digress...

[russdquinn]

My point was really about what might bring the most return on a time investment - developing a iphone app from scratch or partnering with the developers who are already leading in their areas.

I would rather see George's resources invested in making Curio best at what Curio is best at than reinventing the wheel so to speak. One of the strong points of Curio is its existing integration of leading formats (Omnioutliner, Omnigraffle, Keynote, Adobe, etc.).

Even if Apple opens up their API to include task syncing, there will still be a significant market for power users who prefer Omnifocus, Things, Pocket Informant, etc.

Appigo's ToDo iphone app already syncs its tasks with ical tasks. Would it be difficult to include Appigo friendly fields as an option for Curio tasks so you could take advantage of their subtasks and contact features?

WebIS syncs Toodledo tasks with Pocket Informant and I think they are working on a direct sync with ical tasks also.

Whatever you do will determine what I use on the iPhone because I would prefer to use Curio to manage all of my tasks on the desktop over anything I have seen.

I think Curio might be in a stronger position by supporting integration with as many of these existing options as possible than by developing another task manager. Unless of course it allowed interaction with idea spaces in such a way that assets in Curio could be viewed on the iPhone.

I'm not a developer nor the son of a developer so I may be completely out in left field.

[Khechog]

I'd certainly prefer some integration rather than none and like Russ says, there's a balance to be had. Does integration with any of those task managers Russ mentioned sound feasible George? What might such a thing look like in Curio?

[george]

I'll have to see what the various APIs look like. But, yes, it's certainly feasible.

[Khechog]

Hi all - interesting development here, scuse me if this is already common knowledge - I just bought an ipod nano & it syncs iCal calendars AND to-do's. Just sync'd a Curio project to iCal though & although it shows up in iTunes to sync to the ipod it doesn't show in the ipod. I don't know why this is - it syncs to-do's created within iCal just fine. I'll call Apple tomorrow & let you know what I find out. At least this seems to indicate some willingness from Apple on the 'to-do' sync issue.

[Khechog]

Ok, Ive been in touch with Apple & perhaps unsurprisingly they don't know what the issue is - they're pointing the finger back at Curio. Do you have any idea about what could be different between the calendar Curio creates & the calendar iCal creates that might be causing this issue George?

Thanks for your help.